Word of Mouth... For Men to Talk

In the first of our new interview series "Word of Mouth", Shout or Whisper sat down with Luke Newman, founder of For Men To Talk, to hear about the group and the man behind it.

Hitchin's For Men To Talk Walking group

How did For Men to Talk start, and how did you get into running it?

For Men to Talk’s been going since December of 2019- actually, Christmas Eve it was.

From my own experience, I lost my mum twenty years ago this year to cancer, so I was only twenty-four, she was only fifty-four, and then my sister passed away ten years ago as well, so she was only forty-four. So obviously with that, that left me with depression, grief, anxiety… But I’ve always been able to talk about my mental health, to anyone- so family and friends, but also strangers in the street. And I know that it’s difficult for some people, especially us men to do that.

So in that December I thought “I want to launch, like, a Facebook page just to see if I can get men to talk a bit more”. And that was on Christmas Eve, believe or not, when I launched it- and over the next few days, I had so many men contact me, or partners, saying “this is exactly what my partner needs” or “it’s what I need, can we get together?”. And I thought yeah, absolutely, let’s get a group together. So we launched our first meeting in Biggleswade in Bedfordshire in February, and nineteen men turned up. I was like “wow!”- I was expecting three or four men, which would have been great, but nineteen men turned up- so I knew there’s a need for this.

So again we had another couple of meetings, and then Covid. Literally bang, straight in it. And I was like “Well, okay, what do we do now?” Because men need this more than ever, don’t know how long this lockdown is going to happen. So that’s when somebody introduced me to Zoom, and we had a virtual meeting every Wednesday- and we still do that now, so five years later we’re still doing a Zoom meeting on a Wednesday.

So since then we’ve gone back into physical meetings and we’ve carried on the virtual meetings- but we do walking meetings, like we do in Hitchin, we do fishing meetings now, and we’ve launched over the last twelve months For Men to Talk about Autism- for men who have got autism traits or are diagnosed with autism later on in life. What we’ve seen- because I used to work in a community mental health team- what we were seeing, we were seeing men especially get diagnosed with autism in their thirties, forties, fifties, even sixties. With that comes a lot of challenges, so what we’ve tried to do is get their own meeting for men to discuss their challenges on a day to day basis because they see the world differently, and they get support from that.

we had another couple of meetings, and then Covid. Literally bang, straight in it. And I was like “Well, okay, what do we do now?”

What we’re trying to do is just shift now- so where I was based in Biggleswade, Sandy, Potton, that way, it’s now just drifting this way. What I saw about a year ago is a map of Great Britain and more than ever now, there’s a lot of support for men out there now, however, East Anglia- nothing. It’s really weird.

This map shows- like, Andy’s Man Club, which- amazing, but they haven’t gone into East Anglia. And what we try and do, we try and do it a bit different as well so we don’t have it on a set day. So like Andy’s Man Club- who again, as I’ve said, they’re amazing, they have it on a Monday- what we do, we try and fit it in for when it’s convenient for other people. And that’s what we’ve done.

And we don’t ask set questions- so I won’t go, you know, “What’s wrong with you?”- it’s almost like a free-flowing conversation. We will go round, say “How are you?”, y’know, and if somebody says to me y’know “Luke, I’m not ready to talk” that’s fine, we won’t ask them. There’s some guys that have been to our meetings for two years and they still haven’t really come out with what’s wrong for them but they feel comfortable to come to our meetings and feel in their own mental health that they’re not on their own.

I think a lot of men out there, especially, they don’t know what their career is. And I was struggling with that for many years.

Do you run all of the meetings?

I do all of them apart from a couple now. I’m now doing this full time- for the first time six weeks ago I gave up my full time job to do this full time. The idea now is get men more to do it out and about, and that’s what I’m doing- I’ve got guys who run it in Aldershot, Stockport, and obviously Hitchin here now as well.

We do For Men to Talk and Walk in Hitchin- we do that on the first and third Friday every month. We meet opposite the memorial statue on the steps, by the Market Square. What’s amazing about that, it’s actually run by Kenny, his name is- he doesn’t mind me talking about his story. So eighteen months ago he came to our group for the first time, and was really struggling with his mental health. In the space of a week he was diagnosed with autism in his late twenties, his girlfriend of ten years left him, and… he’s from the Travelling community, and his community ostracised him for his mental health… And so, he’s been working so hard in the last eighteen months on his own mental health, he goes “Luke, can I launch my own walking group?”

I went “Absolutely”, y’know- and so he launched it on his own accord in Hitchin, and does it on the first and third Friday every month.

You mentioned you had a background in community mental health?

Yes- well, my background is PR and marketing for social media, for twenty years, and then from launching For Men to Talk five years ago I found almost my passion- I think a lot of men out there, especially, they don’t know what their career is. And I was struggling with that for many years. I knew I enjoyed social media and design, but I just didn’t think that was going to be me for the rest of my life. So I almost fell into it accidentally. And from the last two or three years I worked for Mind, but I was embedded in the community mental health team in Biggleswade. I enjoyed it, I definitely enjoyed it but again we can see that the NHS is very very stretched and it was hard to be in that environment, watching people struggle. As in, the staff struggle, with the pressures on them.

So… My role in the community mental health team was signposting to people groups in the community that are going to help their mental health rather than just relying on the NHS. What we’re seeing, though, is that a lot of them are going. I was struggling now to signpost people to these groups- they are, they’re all going, they’re all stopping… And I thought, “well, what I want to do then is leave and expand my For Men to Talk as much as I can”- so there is places for men to go to.

In the time that you’ve been running this, have you seen the towns and villages that you’re in change, and if so, how? And in the next five/ ten years, if you could predict how they’re going to continue changing, what do you think that would look like?

From a mental health point of view, like I said earlier there’s more opportunities for men to speak than ever before- however the men’s suicide rate is the highest it’s been since 1999. What we’re seeing, especially since Covid, is people being isolated. It still continues now. We know with the financial crisis we’re in right now, which to be honest I can’t see an end goal, I think it’s going to continue for… probably five years, the way it’s going- is that people are struggling. In many different ways. It could be relationship breakdowns- we saw a lot of relationship breakdowns in Covid- obviously everything’s going up in price, gas and electricity is a ridiculous amount of money now, everything’s going up. A lot of retail shops are closing down, a lot of people are getting made redundant now- because of, again, the financial crisis…

So what we’re trying to see now, we’re seeing a lot of things changing where men need to talk about it because- again, the men’s suicide rate is going up every year, we need to have more and more men’s support because that’s going to keep going. It is still a big case where three in four suicides in Britain are men.

Outside of running this scheme, do you any other community work in the area?

Interestingly, I go on a humanitarian trip to Kenya every year. I’ve been going since 2014. I’ve always done stuff locally- I remember doing- this is when I was about eight or nine- I remember doing something at home for the Blue Peter appeal. I don’t know if they still do it, but it was for Romania- I’ve always been, I don’t know if the word fascinated is the right word, but I’ve always been interested in helping other people if I see it on TV.

We were seeing the likes of Comic Relief, which still goes now, forty years later. We saw Live Aid obviously with Ethiopia. My brother got approached by a charity called African Adventures to take a group of people over there and just help build schools. Build classrooms, build anything they need- so we’ve done a lot of stuff in the last nine years. It’ll be tenth year in May.

Are you actively part of other clubs or teams?

No, not at all, actually. I used to play football many many years ago, I always used to come over here (Hitchin) playing football Saturday/Sunday, but the old knee injury’s gone now, that’s stopped me playing.

But no… I’ve always been into football, since my late twenties when I stopped and got a wife and had kids, and that stopped me from doing anything… I now take my son to football every Saturday so we do that. But no, I’m not in any clubs at all.

a few guys have got their own social group now. They don’t talk about their mental health, they go to comedy nights, they’ll go to cafes

Would you say that’s typical of a lot of men? They get to a certain age and they aren’t part of a club so they need somewhere to talk?

Absolutely, yeah- one thing we’re definitely seeing as men get older, friendships go separate ways.

You know, when you were going through the whole of school and even upper school, you had that friendship for three or four years, even maybe five years gone to sixth form. You sort of go sideways. And it’s not intentional, it’s just how life takes over. So what’s great about For Men to Talk is that friendship support.

Not only can you talk about your mental health, you can talk about your everyday life. And what’s great about it as well is that a few guys have got their own social group now. They don’t talk about their mental health, they go to comedy nights, they’ll go to cafes and restaurants and all you can eat things, and hang out. Because again, the key thing- what we’re seeing since isolation, a lot of men are isolated at home. Some men have relationship breakdowns or have never been in a long term relationship, and those friendships that they have formed with other people who may be married, you don’t see them. So the social group’s been great.

It has actually been really touching for me, because I don’t get involved in it- so for them to meet at each other at these different meetings and go “actually, I can get on well with you, do you fancy going to a comedy night, do you fancy something to eat?” is just amazing. And I know it’s much needed, because again men are so lonely. They may work Monday to Friday but then they get home and there’s nothing to do.

Again with the financial crisis they might not be able to afford to go out all the time, so that’s been quite touching, that.

Sometimes we, y’know- life can go a hundred miles an hour and you can be a robot, a machine, you continue.

You’ve already spoken a little bit about this- it’s been five years since the first lockdown. What sort of impact did it have on you as an individual? On the way you were trying to run For Men to Talk? How did it affect things?

I think it was a bit of a blow for everyone- but for me personally because I’d launched this new group (which at that time I didn’t know that I’d make it into a company anyway) but this new group which I’d really found my passion for, and for it to be stopped with me going “What can I do?”, it was a bit of a blow, y’know?

Luckily, somebody introduced me to Zoom and I was able to do it every Wednesday, but I missed that interaction of face to face. I really… I prefer face to face, even though I do enjoy virtual meetings, don’t get me wrong- because it allows people that are suffering with the likes of social anxiety to join us, and guys who are up and down the country join us as well, which this gives that opportunity for them.

I think like everyone I actually quite enjoyed the first part of Covid, as in being at home, it was like a new thing. Working from home, never knew- I’d never done that previously, I was in my previous job and doing that, so I was working from home.

But I think up 'til the Christmas point, I think that’s when my mental health suffered. I don’t get on very well with dark nights, lots of men don’t as well- a lot of men, their mental health deteriorates in the dark because sometimes you go to work in the dark, you come home in the dark, so you don’t get that vitamin D from the Sun. You miss that sunlight and sunshine that we have.

That’s when my own mental health deteriorated, and that’s where I almost used For Men to Talk for my own good. Where I am into talking about how I’m feeling, to get that feeling of camaraderie when you go “Actually I’m not the only one who feels like that”. A few guys feel like that- don’t feel like you’re on your own.

Yeah, Covid was really… difficult in the second part of it. Even in… I had my fortieth in lockdown. And we were in that tier system at the time, which people may forget. December the nineteenth, it was- midnight we were in Tier 2, and by the end twenty four hours later we were in Tier 4. It was just before that Christmas period. So we were going to have a socially distanced restaurant meal with my family coming down from Derby where my brother lives, that completely cancelled it all in a space of a few hours because of restrictions. So that was hard, because that was my fortieth.

But it was also almost an eye opener as well, because I think a lot of men then realised going through Covid that they were suffering with something. Sometimes we, y’know- life can go a hundred miles an hour and you can be a robot, a machine, you continue. When it gets stopped like it did… A lot of men were made furlough,  the construction industry especially- which, the construction industry has got the highest rate of men’s suicide in the whole of industry. It goes construction industry, farming. So farming could carry on, but with construction industries they had to stop, they weren’t able to build, so they completely stopped- and then that’s when they thought “actually, something’s not right”.

So in hindsight that may be a good thing, because then men can actually step away and think “Actually I need to do something about my mental health”.

So yeah Covid was tough, for a lot of men especially.

Having come through it, has it had any effect on the outlook of how you do things?

Erm… It sounds funny, I’ve gone back to normality now. It feels like a bit of a blur for the last… the first two years of Covid. But I think it’s been, definitely, an eye-opener for a lot of people, for many different reasons.

I think if I hadn’t gone to Kenya, previously, I think it would have changed me forever. I’m not a very materialistic person now so I don’t buy fancy things. So long as there is a roof over my head, and my wife and my kids, and food on the table, I’m absolutely fine. But I think if I hadn’t gone through that, and gone through Covid, I think it would have affected me a lot more than it had.

Founder Luke Newman

What do you personally do to unwind and enjoy yourself?

Er, yeah, wow… I like to meditate. That helps me. Again if you’d told me five years ago I’d meditate I’d have gone “nah, what is that”. Meditation’s hopefully changing for the better for people. I really think- many, many years ago people thinking it might have been people humming to themselves, crossed legs, in a forest. It’s not at all. There’s so much different. And that helps with my mental health.

Lego. Love Lego.

But music. Plays a massive part of my life. I used to DJ for twenty years, love music. Stopped just before Covid, actually, but- when I’m feeling happy, I play music, I’m feeling sad, I play music. It’s a way of helping me sing, helping me think. Music plays a big part.

Spending time with my wife and kids, obviously, is a big thing.

Going to Kenya especially is a massive thing for me, because I go for two weeks and it almost recharges, refreshes my own mental health. Because- I don’t take things for granted, I never have done, however even the little things I’ll come home and go “I don’t need that”. Y’know, possessions are possessions- wherever we’re going in the afterlife, we can’t take them with us.

Is there anything you go to around Biggleswade or the local area that you go to that you’d like to shout out?

I tell you what’s really good- locally in Biggleswade there’s the big theatre, and they do a lot of theatrical things in the evening now. They have a café during the day which is beautiful, but they do theatre productions, comedy nights there as well.

I know they comedy nights here in Hitchin as well, which I highly recommend- very, very funny, and what’s great about these little places that we go to, especially in Hitchin now, is that a lot of the really good comics out there who do big arenas, they come and practice their routines here.  It’s good way for them to understand “is this joke going to work?” and it’s really cheap, it’s really cost effective. I think people need to take that up a bit more often because laughter is the best medicine. Having comedy nights in Hitchin and Biggleswade locally it’s ideal.

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As well as the virtual and walking groups, For Men to Talk run For Men to Talk about Autism and For Men to Talk… and Fish. In the fishing group, the licenses are paid for and kit is provided, and men buddy up in pairs to fish, talk and socialise.

Luke is also bringing For Men to Talk into education settings, for young men to talk about their mental health. He believes more should be done to teach about mental health in schools. He is soon to bring For Men to Talk to a school in Luton, in association with Parallel Lives, where the two organisations will talk with students about taking care of their mental health.

A full list of the events and locations offered by For Men to Talk can be found here.